Agent Black VS Guardian Arkveld (Iconoclasts VS Monster Hunter)
"In ancient times, men built wonders, laid claim to the stars and sought to better themselves for the good of all. But we are much wiser now."
-Archmagos Ultima Cryol
Agent Black, the enforcer of the One Concern.
Guardian Arkveld, the White Wraith.
These bio-engineered warriors served their land with undying loyalty, but as the years passed and the authority of their leaders fell apart, all it earned them was agony and madness, to which only a rampage unto their death could provide them peace. When these paths clash in a DEATH BATTLE, who will stand in the rubble? Will Arkveld be welcomed to the world of fear, or will the Guardian slay Agent Black?
Before We Start
For Iconoclasts, while a sequel has been rumored it’s never come to fruition. As far as I can tell Joakim Sandberg’s other games have no relation to Iconoclasts, so the only other thing to use is his Word of God, if relevant and non-contradictory to the material.
For Guardian Arkveld, we will use the mainline Monster Hunter games, primarily sticking to the G/Ultimate rereleases of past entries given those (to my knowledge) come with everything from their originals and more. Monster Hunter Stories will be considered as a secondary sources (as it’s canonicity is dubious but not highly contradictory), while miscellaneous spinoffs like Monster Hunter Orage or Legend of the Guild will be discounted for my sanity because none of them are good (SERIOUSLY, NONE OF THEM) and don’t even add new considerations beyond scaling headaches and shoddy attempts at character writing.
Both fighters are somewhat reliant on a unique substance with many similar properties; Ivory for Agent Black, and Wyvern Milk for Guardian Arvkeld. To keep things fair and let them utilize this, the battle will take place in the Ruins of Wyveria, and the substances will be equalized.
Agent Black
Background
Madelyn Binoche’s life before she underwent Transcendance is largely unknown. Once someone talked her into the process, that was that- whatever memories she had from what came before slowly became buried under nearly 200 years of service to the One Concern, the ruling religious and political power of the world.
During this time she had two partners; Agent White, and Agent Grey. Over such a long period of time it’s inevitable that they would grow close with one another, but despite Grey’s efforts otherwise, they were never much more than coworkers until the very day the unthinkable happened. The death of an Agent, in the form of Grey being subjected to Elro’s serum.
Naturally, Madelyn made it her mission to take revenge on the so-called devil of Settlement 17, targeting their sister Robin and hunting them down to eventually execute them for their crime. But the world spun out of control around her. By targeting Elro and his family, Robin became a massive threat to the One Concern alongside Mother's successor Royal and the Isi Mina, killing Agent White and Mother, alongside dooming the very world by destroying the Omega Controller.
Needless to say that with her entire life seemingly derailing before her eyes, the sheer rage drove her to insanity. With nothing left to lose, she could only think of one thing. That the rocket which Mother and her chosen hoped to escape the planet on was one she was given explicit orders to protect, all the way back at the time when she was created. That was her rocket, and she would die defending it. Inevitably, she did.
Experience & Skill
Agent Black has spent over 187 years serving the One Concern and clearly isn't a slouch when forced to come to blows. Even when stripped of the innate advantages of her amplified physiology in the detritus pit, she was fully confident in being able to take out whoever came after her, and certainly put up a fight against Robin.
Equipment
Cybernetic Arms
Augments given to Agent Black after she emerged from the Transcender, replacing her arms after they melted away. An ordinary human body would reject them, but she benefits from much heavier punches and the ability to launch a variety of projectiles.
Gun
A seemingly mundane handgun she drew to shoot Elro, then almost used on Robin. She never uses it for active combat, but it’s something demonstrably on her person.
Rocket Launcher
A rocket launcher she acquires at some point before encountering Robin for their second fight. It launches rockets.
Abilities
Agent Physiology
Agents of the One Concern are all infused with Ivory, a fuel that binds matter at a sub-microscopic level. The infusion melts off portions of their biology in exchange for immense strength, regeneration and a life lasting hundreds of years. Even when beaten to death and placed in a chamber made specifically to counteract this effect, their bodies can be restored by simply moving them to an area with Ivory.
- Royal gets his head crushed, and comes out fine once moved out of the area
- Chrome's head is completely caved in, later is seen completely fine.
- Agent Black is unable to end herself thanks to the ease in which she can be brought back to life.
Electricity Manipulation
Can emit large amounts of electricity from her cybernetic arms, whether through direct transmission or firing orbs that explode into smaller projectiles.
Shockwaves
Agent Black can slam the ground, releasing shockwaves.
Explosions
Can fling out orbs that explode upwards, serving as area denial as she follows up with some more melee.
Resistances
Corrosion Inducement: Agents are created by withstanding months of bathing in Ivory, with those too weak simply being consumed by the substance.
Electricity: Can shrug off being hit by Robin’s galvanized wrench, which releases a burst of electricity.
Feats
- Survived the Transcendance, which consumes any too weak for it
- Reacted to a point blank shotgun blast. (Mach 0.256)
- Fought toe to toe with Robin on multiple occasions, whom is capable of reacting to rockets. (Mach 1.04)
-
Facetanked Royal's ivory explosion (16.343 Tons of TNT)
Weaknesses
An Agent’s Ivory blood is a great blessing, but a curse against anything that targets it. The Isi seeds cause a tree to grow from Ivory and for their attempts to heal to only spread it further, while Elro's serum makes Agents outright explode. In the same vein, an environment with no ivory to speak of makes it impossible to regenerate. Agent Black herself suffers from chronic migraines, severe enough that her partner, White, yelling or Concern agents laughing in unison actively disorients her.
Guardian Arkveld
"I was still hoping I imagined the whole thing... But no. The White Wraith... It's real!"
Background
Over a thousand years ago, Wyveria stood as the pinnacle of civilization. Through Wyvern Milk, they powered advanced technologies and created Guardians, monsters meant to serve them for eternity. But as their power grew, their hubris eventually overtook it, and they created the downfall of their civilization: Zoh Shia. Despite all their weapons and the other guardians, all came to ruin, marking their kingdom as forbidden by the Hunter's Guild and leaving the survivors to keep watch of the monuments to their sins.
As the ages passed and Guardians slowly awoke from stasis on their own, eventually Guardian Arkveld was among them. They lashed out against the descendants of their creators, forcing Nata to retreat into the world and eventually encounter the Guild, which launched an expedition into the forbidden lands to discover the secrets within, particularly in regards to the so-called White Wraith.
They eventually found their target absorbing the energy of various monsters across the region, first Uth Duna and then Rey Dau, only for it to retreat shortly after. Their pursuit continued until they found the Ruins of Wyveria, where they discovered the truth about the Guardians and came to understand Arkveld’s behavior.
In the process of trying to break away from the limitations of it’s biology and long-forgotten purpose, it did not simply learn how to consume food. It became outright ravenous and destructive, trying to kill and devour anything within it’s sights. Without any other choice, Alma authorized the slaying of Guardian Arkveld, and while it was carried out, hope remained in the offspring it managed to miraculously produce before its time came.
Abilities
Dragon Element
Arkveld is capable of making attacks through the Dragon Element, a mysterious energy capable of disabling the use of elemental abilities. Arkveld is capable of infusing it’s chain blades to deliver strikes with the element and cause explosive blasts in the ground nearby.
Guardian Physiology
Guardians are a bio-engineered race of monsters created by Ancient Wyveria, designed as an enhancement to normal monsters with several unique properties, meant to serve them. Through Wyvern Milk, they are able to sustain themselves without eating or sleeping and can live indefinitely. Wyvern Milk also allows them to regenerate wounds constantly and heal themselves through absorbing more, as well as providing offense through blasts of energy.
Wylk Crystalization
Guardians are able to cause pools of Wylk to form crystal structures, which can then explode when struck by an elemental attack.
.Energy Absorption
Beyond a Guardian’s innate ability to absorb Wylk, Arkveld is capable of consuming the energy and elements of other monsters to replenish themselves and increase their strength.
Flight
Using it’s wingarms, Arkveld can fly, using this for certain attacks and to flee an area to recover.
Roars
Large Monsters are near universally capable of delivering bellowing roars as they engage a foe or become enraged, stunning hunters with their sheer volume if they aren’t equipped with sufficient ear protection.
Enrages
(WHAT DO YOU MEAN THERE’S NO ACTUAL TUTORIAL ON THIS IN EITHER WILDS OR ESPECIALLY WORLD WHERE IT’S INCREDIBLY RELEVANT TO CLUTCH CLAWS??? I’M GOING TO SCREAM, LEAVE THIS IN THE FINAL PUBLICATION I’M FRIGGIN ENRAGED MAYBE MY LIVE REACTION SHOULD BE HERE)
As a monster is more and more wounded against a foe, their rage increases, giving them more strength and endurance to continue the fight for a time.
Reactive Evolution
Overtime, Monsters are capable of growing much stronger and developing new abilities when faced with adversity. Monster Hunter Generation’s Deviants and particularly their successors, the Apex monsters of Rise, show that they can gain enormous levels of power from this, allowing an Apex Zinogre to go toe to toe with Amatsu. In immediate combat, monsters are capable of steadily acclimating to status effects such as poison, paralysis and sleep, and require more effort to afflict them with each successive use. Guardian Arkveld themselves were able to overpower the very tenants of their biology and reproduce.
.Resistances
Fire/Heat: While not sharing a regular Arvkeld’s fire resistance, they’re capable of inhabiting the depths of the Oilwell Basin, which is a field of lava
Ice/Cold: Similarly, Arkveld can withstand Ice attacks and is unbothered by the environment of the Iceshard Cliffs
Poison/Sleep/Paralysis/Blastblight/Flashbangs: While not particularly resilient against them, Guardian Arkveld can withstand various ailments available to Hunters, including in weapons and through gadgets such as Poison Smoke bombs, which can instantly take effect against Small Monsters. They can also steadily grow more resistant to these effects and the likes of and Shock Traps and Flash Pods until they’re largely ineffective.
Feats
Defeated Rey Dau
Can overpower and drain nearly every Monster on the Wilds roster
Can keep up with Hunters, who are capable of dodging roars (Mach 1)
Defied their biological engineering and reproduced, bringing the Arkveld race back into the world
Scaling
Apex Monsters
Standing at the top of a particular regions ecosystem, Apex monsters have been a staple of the franchise since it’s inception, beginning with series icon Rathalos. With the Turf War system introduced in World and some cutscenes from prior entries, there have been many showings that they all inhabit at least similar levels of power, and Guardian Arkveld himself is able to beat Rey Dau in a straight up fight.
- Lagiacrus smashing huge stone pillars (6.7 Tons of TNT)
- Rathalos and Astalos both rapidly descending from the cloud layer (Mach 1.45-4.37)
- Rey Dau using bolts of Electricity in combat (Mach 1.6)
- Diablos’ Kinship attack (183.76 Tons of TNT) (Debatable, see Before the Verdicts)
Weaknesses
While creatures in Monster Hunter are generally more sophisticated than what you’ll find in real life, they’re still animals, and Arkveld doesn’t have anything remarkable breaking it from the mold. It’s inability to suppress it’s instincts and programming going haywire after so many years of stasis is why it became so dangerous in the first place.
Before the Verdict
Scaling to Elder Dragons
While there is somewhat of an argument that Apex Monsters could scale to Elder Dragons, these showings are few and far between, and the reasons they shouldn’t scale are a bit more ironclad.
For every instance of something like Tigrex tanking Bazelgeuse’s charge attack, you have their scaling partner Devijlho easily beating almost every Apex in the New World. For every time Yian Garuga somehow chases Deviljho away, you have Rajang’s turf war with pretty much every flying Wyvern including Yian Garuga and the Rath family. But beyond that, they're also presented very differently from each other in the stories across the games. Apexes are particularly strong monsters, but Elder Dragons are incarnated forces of nature, with abilities that can often warp ecosystems to their wills. They're very regularly the endpoint of a given plotline, the next hurdle specifically after you're already able to tackle a variety of Apexes. Sure, you'll often wear an Apex’s armor in a fight against them, but you can also beat a Diablos in Barroth armor despite Barroth getting one shot by them, Hunters just get more mileage out of this stuff.
It’s also worth mentioning variants and subspecies such as Gold Rathian, which does pretty clearly scale to Elders, but is also certainly well above the curve compared to the base species, given the earliest you can fight them is in High Rank (Where you’re already contending with Elder Dragons) and subspecies generally being more powerful than their base variations, like Ebony Odogaron easily killing normal Odogaron.
THINK FAST CHUCKLENUTS!
Psychic Wizard Dragon?
It’s been a long standing rumor that Dragon Element is a psychic attack. As far as I can tell it’s origins is someone on a wiki making something up, as the stories go, but I'll admit this is a little more debatable than I initially thought when I combed stuff over.
Crimson Glow Valstrax from Monster Hunter Rise is mentioned to be driven mad from an excess of its power- being Dragon Element. While I was under the impression for years this alluded to it being in agony as a result of that, it's never actually stated to be as such, just that the power made them mad and one of the materials you can get from them says the following:
“Merely touching this boiling hot draconic fluid fills your mind with catastrophe.” -Crimson Liquid
So, that does seem fairly legit, but the problem comes from external context. The next section is about item descriptions generally being dubious, but Crimson Glow Valstrax isn't the only monster with a lot of Dragon Element. There are three others I want to bring up in particular; Savage Deviljho, Stygian Zinogre, and Ebony Odogaron.
Savage Deviljho is mentioned to be maddened, much like Crimson Glow, but… it's not from the dragon element, it's their hunger going beyond even what a Deviljho experiences, attributed to high body heat in 3U. No direct correlation is made between its Dragon Element production and its overall well being, though given it looks much more tumorous than normal Deviljho you could infer it's not the most cozy experience.
Stygian Zinogre is a monster with an overwhelming amount of Dragon Element, though not directly within its body. It uses Dracophages, small insects that accumulate the element to the point of literally radiating it and allowing the Zinogre to summon draconic lightning bolts, fling them as orbs of dragon lightning, and they can even deliberately amp themselves up to get Zinogre into a super powered state… and yet despite all of this, nothing is ever mentioned about their behavior being erratic or in any way unusual from Fulgurbugs. Which you may think wouldn't matter, but the relationship between a Zinogre and a Dracophages colony is symbiotic in nature, having them work together. If they were really being driven insane by exerting their element too much, wouldn't that balance collapse and cause them to attack whatever if they go too wild?
Lastly, Ebony Odogaron. Like Stygian Zinogre they make extensive use of the Dragon Element, but in their case there's no secondary medium, they're all natural on spewing the stuff out. Yet, they too, have no particular mental ill effects as a result, they behave pretty much exactly like a normal Odogaron eating carrion and whatnot.
So, what can we glean from all this? Are all of these monsters (and their companions in Zinogre’s case) just built different and thus aren't driven crazy by Dragon Element? I guess it's possible, though Deviljho is directly shown to be susceptible to Gore Magala’s frenzy virus (which is exactly what it sounds like). I think the more likely answer is what I initially assumed; that Valstrax is less overwhelmed by psychic interference and is more just in physical pain from their energy running amok. And the Crimson Liquid is a case of…
Item descriptions
A variety of descriptions for rare monster drops across the franchise have some pretty… dramatic statements, for the powers they hold. I’ll cut it down to Wilds for brevity, but across the main Apex monsters of the game, you have;
“A rare jewel that developed within an Uth Duna. Said to wield the power of a devastating flood.” -Uth Duna Watergem
“A rare jewel that developed within a Rey Dau. Said to wield the power of ten thousand storms.” -Rey Dau Boltgem
“A mysterious gem formed inside a Nu Udra. Said to hold the power to burn the world to the ground.” -Nu Udra Flamegem
“A rare jewel developed within a Jin Dahaad. Said to wield the power to freeze entire cliffs.” -Jin Dahaad Icegem
Now, I’m going post the only clear-cut in-universe statement in Monster Hunter on this topic.
“You'll be hunting a Seregios. My book says it ‘rends the heavens with it's sharp scales and demolishes the earth with it's powerful wings and legs'...
Um, okay. Hyperbole much?"
Honestly, it’s hard to add to. But it sums the issue up pretty nicely: Monster Hunter as a whole thrives in not really giving a lot of objective answers to the world. Hunter’s Notes and even Guidebooks are written from the perspective of researchers in universe- sometimes, stuff included in these descriptions are blatantly hyperbolic and never shown off by the creatures themselves outside of very rare instances, such as Fatalis being able to regenerate from as little as their heart being backed up by a sword made from their parts constantly regrowing and being mined for materials. The statements above, and many similar ones across the franchise… kind of just don’t.
Kinship attacks
As cut and dry as it seems to rate it as a decently powerful attack that can still be endured by equivalent opponents, the caveat here is in the name. Kinship is a special power granted through a Rider’s Kinship stone that empowers monsters, and Monster Hunter Stories being an RPG lets you level up a monster well past their ordinary power level (Even discounting the fact Monsters growing unusually strong is well established in general, with Deviants and Apexes… or really stories itself, given that monsters that are ordinarily at the same level of strength or direct rivals can show up in different areas and thus have big strength gaps between them)
It is generally more feasible to argue in favor of it than the other sections mentioned prior, given that this can also be used to battle other Apex monsters and there’s not some training based requirement to unlock the move, but it is still a little up in the air and I’ll personally just treat it as a distinct possibility, rather than a baseline for the verdict.
The Ivory Beast
Agent Black does have an alternative form in her second phase, where she’s hit with a ton of Eyes as she’s given fatal injuries from Mina’s seeds. It’s a great show of her endurance that she keeps going up until that point, but in terms of the form itself, it requires outside help (Or really hindrance, given the circumstances) and doesn’t truly add much to the debate, as it evidently doesn’t make her much stronger and doesn't retain the same level of immortality.
Multi-Continental Iconoclasts?
Verdict
Direct Combat
If we account for the Diablos Kinship attack, Agent Black gets crushed here. A 11.2x AP gap is absolutely brutal compared a 2.4x gap, especially when speed goes to him either way. Without it, Agent Black does have a pretty notable advantage, but Arkveld also has the ability to amplify himself by enraging as he takes damage and absorbing energy to dish out bigger attacks.
Even skill isn’t that decisive to coincide with this- Agent Black is naturally going to be smarter given Arkveld in particular isn’t shown to be much more than a wild animal, but they’re also a real threat for Hunters to deal with despite Power Clashes showing very clearly that they don’t have a straight strength advantage. And it shows in game, it knows how to use those chainblades in more complex ways than just flailing them as hard as they can, with stuff like the grapple attack, covering their blind spots by striking with their tail, or dragging the chains across the ground to trip a hunter up.
What gives Agent Black a real tangible advantage is her numerous ranged capabilities. Arkveld isn’t any slouch in this regard, but they revolve around pooling energy in the ground and causing an explosion nearby, which Agent Black can just jump out of the way of and retaliate with projectiles that just fly through the air and hit… Though, even then, Agent Black might be even more savage than Arkveld in terms of how she actually prefers to fight, given her heavy emphasis on literally scampering up to an opponent and punching their lights out with the dash of projectiles to keep them on their toes, not to mention Dragonblight shuts off some of those avenues. So we’ll have to move on to tertiary factors to find something more decisive.
Regeneration
Agent Black obviously takes the cake here in terms of sheer potency. Arkveld can be killed in a prolonged enough fight and their healing is shown mostly in terms of surface level injuries, but it has an advantage in that a Guardian is always healing their wounds, not just after absorbing Wyvern Milk, while Agents always need to absorb Ivory to recover after taking enough damage. Arkveld also has the ability to simply fly away to absorb some more if they’ve been beaten badly enough, though this also gives Agent Black time to do the same within seconds. Still, having to stop to recover is a major drawback, because much like how Mina and Robin can take advantage of that window to plant the Isi seeds, Arkveld also has means to use that opportunity to the fullest.
Substance Control
Two means; Directly absorbing the Ivory, and causing it to crystalize and explode, while Agent Black is never shown to do the same in return despite wanting to kill multiple other blessed throughout the story and her first fight with Robin having Royal’s body right there to potentially syphon Ivory from.
It’s very possible that the moment Arkveld draws blood from Agent Black and hits her with an energy attack, she’ll be set up for exploding from the inside right then and there, and thanks to having Horns, Claws, and it's signature Chainblades, it’s not unreasonable for Arkveld to cut them enough to draw blood, despite being weaker.
Even without that though, Arkveld’s ability (And tendency to try the moment it’s possible) to absorb the energy of other beings would leave him more than equipped to suck out Agent Black’s Ivory, and while that by itself doesn’t negate Agent Black’s ability to absorb more and get right back into the fight… Arkveld is also prone to devouring smaller prey, and with Agent Black being full of substance it’s very likely that he’ll do this to actually dispose of her indefinitely.
He’ll also have more chances to get something done than simply managing to whittle Agent Black down, too. While ordinarily Arkveld’s roar only stuns a Hunter momentarily, against someone with chronic migraines that’s particularly vulnerable to loud noises? That’s going to be downright crippling.
Now, that said; the simple fact is that Agent Black is stronger and at least a little bit better of a fighter, and trying to grab her before that point is almost guaranteed to have her force her way out or blast Arkveld in the face with something, but it’s going to take a lot longer for her to beat down Arkveld than for Arkveld to get chances to instantly end the fight.
Conclusion
Agent Black
Advantages:
- Stronger with lower ends…
- More potent regeneration…
- Better ranged options
- Moonlight
Disadvantages:
- …But high ends blow her out of the water and she has no way to one up enrages or empowered attacks
- …But she needs to commit to using it, leaving her open to be grabbed
- Slower
- Electric attacks would fuel dragon conversion, and can't be used when under Dragonblight
- Could have her Ivory absorbed, and has no showings of being able to absorb it back
- Could have her Ivory blood crystalized and exploded
- Roars will completely discombobulate her
Guardian Arkveld
Advantages:
- Much stronger with high ends
- Can buff himself to close the gap on lower ends
- Faster
- Can fly away to recover…
- Regeneration is always active to some degree
- Dragonblight negates Black’s electric attacks
- Roars will completely discombobulate Black
- Could absorb Black’s Ivory and eat her…
Disadvantages:
- Weaker with lower ends
- Can get outranged easily
- … but Agent Black can take much better advantage of those windows
- Less potent regeneration
- … but when he’s weaker Agent Black can almost certainly escape
- PC framerate
This fight was a lot closer than I expected, even knowing ahead of time that the stats were similar. For awhile I wondered if Arkveld’s wincons just didn’t matter in favor of Agent Black just beating and blasting him to death until he went down, especially given that despite Monster Hunter’s whole schtick being a simulation of our ancestors persistence hunting an animal down, it’s hard to really show off the endurance that both parties have. Like, yeah they usually last a lot longer than other video game fights, but the day/night cycle lasts is just a little too brief to say something like it taking hours to bring one down outside of… pretty much just World’s Master Rank and how they boost up enemy HP way more than other entries.
Still, the fact Arkveld has pretty much an exact lineup of all of Agent Black’s weaknesses while she can’t return fire in the same way means that he has options to get rid of her instantly despite being weaker, and it’s not like his endurance and regen are straight up bad to the point she’s just going to rip him apart before that matters.
The winner is Guardian Arkveld.
Afterword
I’d like to thank Jinsye for hosting this, I’m not that interested in making blogs but I do truly love this matchup, Iconoclasts and Monster Hunter so I figured the one chance I had to see it actually become a thing was to make it myself, and her whole deal being obscure characters was a shoe-in for Agent Black. Not that she’s like, completely unknown, but I personally only really heard of Iconoclasts from a former friend and picked it up on a whim, only to be blown away once I finally got around to playing it. And Monster Hunter… well I’ve basically been doing research for this thing for the past 5 years, when I really got into it you would have to drag me out of the room to get me to stop talking. They’re both absolutely worth your time and I hope this has sparked some interest in these games I really like.
I'd also like to thank the MH guys on VSBW, which definitely made this a lot more doable. Monster Hunter is a pretty monumental franchise to tackle, so having the groundwork from everyone to build off made this way more feasible than trucking through it on my own.
-DMUA
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